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[ NNSquad ] Re: Comcast files "recommended practices" draft RFC with IETF for DNS Redirection




I can't speak for the ISPs motivations, but you're right that they are  
probably driven by profits (though I'd argue they are going to be  
getting short-term profits and the expense of long-term unhappy  
customers) but I will point out that there are lots of legitimate  
reasons people want to do DNS error redirection.  12 million + people  
have opted to use the services of my company, OpenDNS, to make their  
internet safer and more reliable.  That's why I was willing to lend a  
few thoughts to the IETF document.

-David

   [ Note that David (Reed's) message didn't discuss the profit issue,
     so your response is actually to my comment.  However, I agree,
     there are legit reasons why individuals or organizations may
     choose to use alternate DNS services such as yours.  And I have
     no problems at all with anyone choosing whichever DNS resolver
     that they might wish.  However, I know of no case where a major ISP
     has introduced a DNS diversion service on an *opt-in* basis.
     Every one I've seen has been opt-out (usually by means of users
     changing their DNS settings manually) and -- judging from people
     who contact me on this topic -- often very badly (if at all)
     explained to ISP customers.  Seriously, does anyone know of a
     major ISP that introduced DNS diversion completely opt-in?

        -- Lauren Weinstein
           NNSquad Moderator ]


On Jul 9, 2009, at 2:06 PM, David P. Reed wrote:

>
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-livingood-dns-redirect-00
>
> I note that this draft RFC proposes practices that routinely return
> *valid* responses to erroneous DNS lookups, and encourage an opt-out
> policy rather than an opt-in policy.
>
> The sole justification is that the default way that a browser such as
> Firefox or IE would present an error message is inadequate for users,
> thus an ISP should take matters into its own hands to fix that  
> cosmetic
> problem, rather than asking the browser vendors to do a better job!
>
> And the side effects identified do not include the impact on http
> requests not generated by typing into web browsers, but instead used  
> as
> part of "web 2.0" service apis and other uses of port 80 that do not
> arise from end users typing into the url bar of their browser.
>
> One might ask why the sole justification given  for this misuse of DNS
> to patch an application weakness is the only one?
>
> And even more so, why this is such an urgent problem that ISPs must  
> fix
> it via a flawed and risky solution, rather than the makers of browsers
> fixing it in the most logical place?
>
> The potential to disrupt non web-browser features is noted in the  
> "draft
> RFC", but instead of a balanced analysis of benefits and costs to  
> other
> uses, the draft is silent.  In fact, the draft refers to this as
> "enhanced" functionality.
>
> I expect the wiser heads at the IETF to prevail....  This is a  
> solution
> to a non-existent "problem", with bad side effects.
>
> While this is not exactly the same as directing a misdialed phone call
> to call a Caribbean phone company number with the consequent  and
> unavoidable billing charge to the user, it seems very close to that  
> sort
> of thing - a surprise to all application developers, and a  
> modification
> to the expected semantics of directory lookup.
>
>   [ I agree with David.  If IETF goes along with this proposal, there
>     is something very rotten in Denmark.  What's really amusing about
>     the referenced document though is that for all its verbiage in
>     which it tries to establish a "need" for such DNS redirect
>     services -- mostly focused on highly questionable assumptions
>     about malware protection and legal mandates -- it fails to
>     mention the primary reason that ISPs implement DNS redirects.
>
>     This is of course use of such DNS diversion services to create
>     profit centers, by shunting users to ISP-affiliated search
>     engines and affililated ad delivery services, attemping to
>     monetize users' interactions with the broader Internet by
>     capturing low-level transactional communications to which the ISP
>     has privileged access.
>
>         -- Lauren Weinstein
>            NNSquad Moderator ]
>