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[ NNSquad ] Re: Curious, as comcast takes a beating, Verizon gets away easy? 

Brett,

They advertise it as "internet service" which it is *almost*. I wasn't asking for pity, but pointing out the "easy pass" of the Verizon's VP statement "we don't do that" when in fact, they achieve the very same goal as comcast via another, carefully hidden technique. I must admit, technically, it's a very clever design, and I was quite impressed when I "black box tested" it to quantify its full characteristics. (it's nearly patent worthy :-) )

I personally am not a bandwidth hog compared to what you likely deal with. My total inbound/outbound last month were 4/6Gbytes respectively on a 20/5Mbps service. Now, even if I used 500Gbytes/mo in both directions, that's still less than a T1's worth of bandwidth for the month. That doesn't mean that I don't spike up to double or triple that when I wish to download the next kubuntu/sabayon/gentoo/etc dvd release (available only via bittorent in several cases), but I'm still a drop in the bucket compared to my overall capacity.

If you'd like to call me a hog at that level, I'll accept the label and laugh it off as a misunderstanding on both our parts as I previously didn't state my overall usage. Seriously, no offense taken or intended.

I've also run data centers, written AUPs and TOS's, and the listed below are "standard cut and paste tripe" which mean basically nothing to me, as a highly technical user.

I pay (in several colos) less for a continuous Mbps of bandwidth than I do for extra IP addresses. The wholesale market on bandwidth in my specific residential location (we just did an RFP for a 40Mbps layer 3 service so I've got the pricing in hand; the office park is less than 2 miles from my residence) is less than $20/Mbps including local loop, and there are better deals to be had. (by verizon business, they'll give me a 50/50 for $200/month including static IP address space and all.....which by the way, I'm able to purchase for my home and have it enabled the next business day. For the business office park, it's actually more difficult, as the fiber plant ends at the street, and thus requires landlord permission, planning and so on.)

Just so you'll get an idea of the construction of the FIOS network, in older installations, it's BPON with 622Mbps shared among 32 homes. In the newer ones, it's GPON, with 2.488 gigabits per second (Gbit/s) of downstream bandwidth, and 1.244 Gbit/s of upstream bandwidth shared among 32 homes. My first router hop is in the verizon newark NJ facility(40 minute drive from here), and heads straight to 111 8th Ave in NYC, where "everyone knows your name" :) Bandwidth in that building is available for under $10/Mbps on small contracts. Verizon of course has the old MCI backbone, thus they typically peer settlement free, their cost being about $500k per peering node for equipment and colocation space to interconnect to 5-10 peers.

So, I paid Verizon some $50 for their service last month, and used about $3 worth of bandwidth. I'd say I'm one of their best customers around. I've also had numerous friendly discussions with tech support, and they know full well that I've bypassed their router and changed it into a bridge in order to use my own, more capable and secure firewall. Not once have they objected, and typically are curious as to how well it works. (no support of course, other than a requested DHCP lease break when need be, although they've told me how to deal with that on my own as well so I don't have to sit in the support call tree; very decent folks actually).

Best regards,
andy
p.s. Brett, as I've said numerous times, your service is what you advertise it to be. I have no issue with that at all.

Brett Glass wrote: 
[Lauren: I realized after sending my earlier reply that I could make this
posting more informative and useful to the list if I included the relevant
clauses from Verizon's ToS. -BG]

At 01:09 PM 3/3/2008, Andrew C Burnette wrote:
When you have many simultaneous connections, like seeding and
downloading multiple torrents, regular web browsing is nearly
impossible.

I'm sorry, but I really can't feel very sorry for you. If you are doing all of this, you are a bandwidth hog. Internet bandwidth isn't free and isn't infinite. If you use up your allocated bandwidth, you should expect to find that some activities are slow. And if you abuse your provider's network by "seeding and downloading multiple torrents" on a home connection, you certainly can expect to be throttled or even have your service terminated because you are violating your contract with your service provider.

Here are the relevant clauses from Verizon's ToS:

3.4 The Service is a consumer service and is not designed or intended to be used by any business or for any business or commercial purpose.

3.5 If you select a pricing plan that includes a predetermined allocation of Services (for example, 150 hours of Dial-up Service), unused allotment of Services from one billing cycle will not carry over to any other billing cycle.

[Clauses relating exclusively to dialup access snipped]

3.7 If you subscribe to Broadband Service:

    3.7.1 You may not resell the Broadband Service, use it for high
    volume purposes, or exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that
    Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service.

    3.7.2 You may connect multiple computers/devices within a single
    home to your Broadband modem and/or router to access the Service,
    but only through a single Broadband account and a single IP address
    obtained from Verizon.

    3.7.3 Where available, Broadband customers may use their Broadband
    accounts to connect through an analog connection, but these
    connections will be subject to usage thresholds and additional per
    hour and monthly charges, depending on the Service to which you
    subscribed.

    3.7.4 Additional User IDs provided for Broadband customers' email
    boxes are not intended for use as dial-up connections. Any usage
    associated with additional email box User IDs will be charged the
    per hour rate associated with usage above the monthly allotment for
    analog Dial-up Service (where available). The number of mailboxes
    available to you depends upon the Service to which you have subscribed.

    3.7.5 You may not use the Broadband Service to host any type of
    server whether personal or commercial in nature.

3.8 Verizon reserves the right to audit connections electronically to enforce these or any other provision of the Agreement.

3.9 Verizon also reserves the right in our sole discretion, with or without notice to you, to modify or restrict the bandwidth available to download content from our Usenet Newsgroup services.

--Brett Glass