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[ NNSquad ] Re: ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line services -- let's assist them!

It's not as straightforward and simple as copper maintenance costs X and
fiber costs Y.  A lot of it depends on whether it's aerial or underground.
Underground copper is a double whammy AGAINST the case for replacing
last-mile copper with fiber.  That's because maintenance cost on underground
copper isn't as high as aerial copper, and because underground fiber is many
times higher than aerial fiber.  According to a Qwest exec, Qwest is 75%
underground and 25% aerial while Verizon was just the opposite which largely
explains why Verizon is willing to do last-mile fiber while Qwest isn't.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Bennett [mailto:richard@bennett.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:28 PM
To: Bob Frankston
Cc: 'George Ou'; 'Dewayne Hendricks'; nnsquad@nnsquad.org; 'OIA List'
Subject: Re: [ NNSquad ] ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line services
-- let's assist them!

Copper twisted pair has considerable maintenance cost, and it takes up 
space on the poles they'd rather use for fiber. Face it, the future of 
networking is fiber and wireless, and the sooner we dump twisted pair, 
the better off we'll all be.

The building where PAIX is located used to be telco CO. In those days, 
there was an 8 foot hole in the wall for all the copper to come into and 
out of the building, but now that it's all fiber-fed, the hole has been 
all but filled.


On 1/4/2010 6:17 PM, Bob Frankston wrote:
> Take as in accept.
> Verizon is a simpler case -- if they say it's a liability how much is it
> worth? And so what if it's "only" 10Mbps per pair?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Ou [mailto:george_ou@lanarchitect.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 21:08
> To: 'Bob Frankston'; 'Dewayne Hendricks'
> Cc: nnsquad@nnsquad.org; 'OIA List'; 'Richard Bennett'
> Subject: RE: [ NNSquad ] ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line
> -- let's assist them!
> Couple of issues.
> First of all, when you say "take" that copper plant, you probably mean
> or pay less for the infrastructure than market rate by forcing the sale.
> That should offend any reasonable person as much as the government taking
> over individual homes for a public works project of some sort.
> Second, copper will probably get to 100 Mbps (64 Mbps is the realistic
> with channel bonding) as signal processing technology gets better, but
> assumes you're going to spend money building out Fiber to the Node (FTTN)
> cabinets to within 1000 meters of each home.  But it's not realistic to
> expect that you'll just light it up to 100 Mbps today even with the
> in place.
> George Ou
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nnsquad-bounces+george_ou=lanarchitect.net@nnsquad.org
> [mailto:nnsquad-bounces+george_ou=lanarchitect.net@nnsquad.org] On Behalf
> Bob Frankston
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 3:53 PM
> To: 'Dewayne Hendricks'
> Cc: nnsquad@nnsquad.org; 'OIA List'
> Subject: [ NNSquad ] ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line services --
> let's assist them!
> ATT is completely correct - they shouldn't be saddled with the cost of
> supporting two networks. In fact supporting even one network is a burden
> a company that makes its money selling services. We have done them as
> disservice by requiring they support an infrastructure so that others like
> Vonage can simply use the bits without ATT getting the a cut of the
> revenue they need to fund the infrastructure based a business model that
> dates back to 19th century telegraph.
> I say we heed their plea and immediately offer them assistance along with
> forgiveness for past failures. If they are so foolishness as to want to
> on to their fiber then let them.
> We should immediately take all that copper off their hands and hand it
> to the communities. The communities are then free to use modern
> to "light" those wires up to 10 to 100Mbps at retail modem prices
> (<$100/line). That was part of my original plan for home networking and we
> have over 20 years of Moore's law improvement to catch up on. And since
> we're dealing with bits and not billing we can be very creative in what we
> do and we can ignore the artificial distinction between wired and wireless
> bits. Or, for that matter between fiber and copper bits.
> The problem is that ATT is right - we don't need redundant infrastructures
> and the paid-for copper trumps debt-creating fiber. They have tied their
> fate to the latter. How long can they kite debt?
> So lets' take ATT up on its offer. Sure it's assisted suicide but then
> sacrificing companies for the greater good is the very essence of
> and the idea of limited liability. Anyway ATT already died - we're just
> talking about the ghost of ATT's past.
>     [ Bob, somehow I suspect that the U-verse folks won't be
>       enthusiastic about your proposal, especially after planting all
>       those VRADs and dragging fiber out to them to "remonetize" that
>       (often monopoly-era) copper and other handy physical plant
>       goodies.  Of course if AT&T hadn't had such largely Ma Bell-era
>       facilities already in place, the cost of deploying U-verse,
>       particularly in areas that would have involved digging up untold
>       thousands of streets and yards, would have been monumentally
>       higher than it has been.
>       Telecom Monopoly Status:
>       The Gift From the Government that Keeps on Giving, Even
>       When You're Not Officially a Monopoly Any More!
>       -- Lauren Weinstein
>          NNSquad Moderator ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dewayne-net [mailto:dewayne-net@warpspeed.com] On Behalf Of Dewayne
> Hendricks
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 15:26
> To: Dewayne-Net Technology List
> Subject: [Dewayne-Net] ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line services
> ATT tells FCC it wants to ditch land-line services
> eweek.com
> By Michelle Maisto
> AT&T tells the FCC that in order to meet Congress' goal of extending
> broadband access to 100 percent of Americans, it needs to heave the old
> land-line business off its shoulders so it can focus funds on broadband
> IP-based communications.
> AT&T has told the Federal Communications Commission that in order to meet
> Congress' goal of extending broadband access to 100 percent of Americans,
> needs to ditch its land-line business in favor of focusing on broadband
> IP-based communications.
> itch-LandLine-Services/>RSS Feed:<http://www.warpspeed.com/wordpress>

Richard Bennett
Research Fellow
Information Technology and Innovation Foundation
Washington, DC